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Old 10-12-08, 16:25   #1
JBond
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Liquid LPG Injection


Gents, I have a few questions that I would appreciate answers to, and they are:

1) Do I need a petrol tank and petrol injectors? I don't want a duel fuel setup. If I switch to LPG then I want to remove the petrol system *

2) A gas tank that is limited to gas flow for 200kW to 300kW isn't sufficient for me, I'm running two turbo's rated 350hp each, so it looks like I would need two tanks running in parallel? Has this been done before and are there any complications to doing it? Pics/info/links please share if you have any

3) Can anyone provide a comprehensive list of who is offering Liquid LPG injection in Australia? There seems to be confusion over what is liquid injection and what is gas injection.


Best Regards,
Matt.



* Actually I am rebuilding my engine, bought some 650cc injectors (6 of them) about a year ago (the rebuild has been a slow work in progress) and just tested them the other day by applying 5VDC to them to ensure that they *click* but only 1 of them did - in other words 5 of them are rat-$hit and too old for me to claim on warranty, so I might aswell consider LPG now rather than later (after buying new petrol injectors).
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Old 10-12-08, 20:26   #2
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ok im having a bit of trouble understanding what ur tryin to get at but il have a go at what i think your on about

1) No, if you dont want to run duel fuel and run straight gas why would u need the petrol tank and petrol injectors?

2) There isnt an off the shelf LPG liquid injection conversion for vls yet so ul be lookin at a full custom job n big $$$$, no vl has made huge power from what i know by using this system yet so if your lookin at over 300kw ul probably be the first and alot of R&D will probably be involved and again big $$$$ so i hope uve got deep pockets, if u wanna go mixers on the other hand thats a different story

3) pm Blownba on the forums, hes a supplier and fitter of the lpg injection systems, more then likely he will post in here anyway but he is the man u really need to be talkin to

hope this kind of helps,

good luck with it either way man, sounds like its gonna be a big gas hitter when its done
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Old 11-12-08, 09:06   #3
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Originally Posted by FORZA
ok im having a bit of trouble understanding what ur tryin to get at but il have a go at what i think your on about

1) No, if you dont want to run duel fuel and run straight gas why would u need the petrol tank and petrol injectors?

2) There isnt an off the shelf LPG liquid injection conversion for vls yet so ul be lookin at a full custom job n big $$$$, no vl has made huge power from what i know by using this system yet so if your lookin at over 300kw ul probably be the first and alot of R&D will probably be involved and again big $$$$ so i hope uve got deep pockets, if u wanna go mixers on the other hand thats a different story

3) pm Blownba on the forums, hes a supplier and fitter of the lpg injection systems, more then likely he will post in here anyway but he is the man u really need to be talkin to

hope this kind of helps,

good luck with it either way man, sounds like its gonna be a big gas hitter when its done
Thanks for your response, my response to yours is:

1) There is a lot of misinformation on the net, the majority of it says that you require a petrol system to start up and shut down your car or some crap like that. I don't want an unnecessary redundant fuel system inside my car, its extra crap that can go wrong.

2) Sorry, but that didn't answer the qn, but I understand where you're coming from cos you assumed the intended car was a VL. It's not my VL, it's going into my 300zx. I'm asking you guys though because you guys seem to be on the cutting edge of the knowledge base (ie doers rather than talkers). And at the end of the day, its a blown 6 cylinder - same thing. What I learn from you guys, I'll document with my build and then you guys can learn from me. My question remains though, if I'm expecting 600rwhp then do I need 2 gas tanks, and for them to be running in parallel? This knowledge must exist - blownba or somebody has to know the "no-bs" facts but I'm struggling to get the right answers Pics/info/links please share if you have any

3) I expect that there are lots of suppliers and fitters but only a few products (ie the actual make and model of the system is few). Instead of pointing me in the direction of individual suppliers (I'm in WA btw) point me in the direction of the actual products. From there I can contact the manufacturer to find authorised fitters.


And to elaborate a bit further, my engine has been out of my car for 2 years.
It's on an engine stand.
I'm almost finished playing with the car, and ready to put the engine back in.
I went to test my injectors by plugging 5V onto the terminals, and they (5 of the 6) failed. So if I'm going to replace them with LPG injectors, then now is the time.
I can do all the labour except what is required for certification. So I can purchase the injectors and install them myself. I think someone that is authorised needs to run the gas lines from the tank to the fuel rail. I'm not sure about the fuel tanks? If possible, I will fit them myself (a donut in the back and cylinder in the middle - I expect that I'll have to drop the rear sub-frame etc so its best if I do that rather than a shop)


Thankyou for your attention and in advance for your response,
Matt.
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Old 11-12-08, 10:53   #4
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whats wrong with a gas research system. theres a mustang 6 making 470rwkw with a gas research setup???
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Old 11-12-08, 11:14   #5
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Originally Posted by Turbro
whats wrong with a gas research system. theres a mustang 6 making 470rwkw with a gas research setup???
Let's try to keep it on topic please. The topic is liquid lpg injection.

I will just quickly leave topic for a second to respond to your post, and that is to say I think you are referring to a gas carby type system - I'm not interested in one of them. For a few reasons, but one of the biggest ones being that I'm interested in the cooling effect that the liquid injection has on the charged air. When the lpg is injected as a liquid, and it quickly atomises and vapourises, it sucks a lot of the heat out of the intake charge air. This is a bit like enhanced intercooling. I suspect it may be able to reduce intake temps to ambient or sub-ambient? Anyways, that is what I'm interested in. The technology apparently exists, there are some out there driving it - so why is the information so hard to come by? Let's open up the knowledge so we can all benefit, thankyou.
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Old 11-12-08, 12:46   #6
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basically everyone in this section whos on gas is running a carby set up so not many of us have knowledge on the subject on liquid injection

but... from what i understand, and i assume the principles would be the same for liquid injection and carby is you dont necessarily need two tanks but u will need twin lines to flow enough gas

like i said ur probably better off pming blownba as he is really the only one on this site (that posts) with knowledge on liquid injection, plus im sure he will be able to point u in the right direction for suppliers and fitters on your side of the world
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Old 11-12-08, 13:02   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FORZA
basically everyone in this section whos on gas is running a carby set up so not many of us have knowledge on the subject on liquid injection

but... from what i understand, and i assume the principles would be the same for liquid injection and carby is you dont necessarily need two tanks but u will need twin lines to flow enough gas

like i said ur probably better off pming blownba as he is really the only one on this site (that posts) with knowledge on liquid injection, plus im sure he will be able to point u in the right direction for suppliers and fitters on your side of the world

Ahhh so there is some kind of safety valve in the line that restricts the gas flow and effectively limits it to about 300kW
Would I still need 2 fuel pumps? (the answer to this qn I guess depends on the flow of the pump and whether or not the restriction is in the pump or in the line)

Blownba do you have a contact number that I can call you on to have a brief chat about this?

Thanks everyone for your contributions!
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Old 11-12-08, 13:45   #8
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im one that will def. agree with the benefits of liquid injection. im usually the one telling ppl how much better it is for the LPG to atomise in the intake to call the charge rather than be added as vapour lol.

i say if you have the cash, go for it!
if you can find an installer who is keen to do it, it seems its almost like adding EFI to a car.

there arent many specific kits around, but they can be adapted to cars without much hassle apparently - but at a cost.
i think your looking at around 4-6k fitted, but the benifits are crazy and a bit unknown as there arent too many around.
apart from the cooling effect of liquid injection, the fact that the tuning can be so more precise alone can boost power and drivability.

the normal vapour systems are limited to roughly 220rwkw due to the smallest point being the outlet at the tank and the lockoffs, also due to the fact that the converters cant process mugh more flow without freezing up.

the liquid injection system has a highflow intake pump and no converter.
so you would need a gas injection system that is bought as a whole and made to work together, with its own tank, lines etc.

i think the limit of the system is around 500kw or so? cant remember numbers like that.

ill dig up alink for you bit later
sorry if any of the info i have provided isnt 100% accurate, havnt got time to double check numbers lol
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Old 11-12-08, 14:00   #9
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The knowledge to the JTG system, the most advanced and common at the same time on the market, is all locked deep within a company called Australian LPG Warehouse. Give Hilbert Klaster a call down there, he will be happy to put you onto some technical people who will talk to you about more stuff than you will understand, they are incredible! I did a presentation before them at an LPG night for the TAFE's in VIC, very knowledgable people.


here's their website

http://www.australianlpgwarehouse.com.au/

and their number

+61 3 9770 2287
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Old 11-12-08, 14:38   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epitaph
The knowledge to the JTG system, the most advanced and common at the same time on the market, is all locked deep within a company called Australian LPG Warehouse. Give Hilbert Klaster a call down there, he will be happy to put you onto some technical people who will talk to you about more stuff than you will understand, they are incredible! I did a presentation before them at an LPG night for the TAFE's in VIC, very knowledgable people.


here's their website

http://www.australianlpgwarehouse.com.au/

and their number

+61 3 9770 2287
I called them up and spoke to one of their technical guys - he wasn't able to answer my qns, mainly: is there a power limit to the tank (ie the rumoured 300kw limitation)
But just a few mins ago, I read blownba's thread once more - there doesn't seem to be that limit on the liquid lpg systems - it was a limitation on the carby systems
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Old 11-12-08, 14:59   #11
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without the need for the converter and with the intank pump etc with the liquid injection system, the power limit is much higher, there are still limitations, but no where near as small as previous.

i wouldnt be too concerned about the answers to the questions your asking, if thats the worst of your worries, your doing well lol. id be more concerned about finding the cash for the conversion and a place thats willing to do it...
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Last edited by misk; 12-12-08 at 08:05. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 12-12-08, 07:32   #12
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And someone willing to sell just bits and pieces of the system!
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Old 12-12-08, 08:06   #13
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or if your after info on the gas research system, it can be done to support 400rwkw without too much hassle.
there are plenty of thread in this section which have answers to all the questions you have asked...
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Old 18-01-09, 20:35   #14
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We do not sell bit of the system. And there will be fitters in Perth soon but no one will be allowed to do custom installs for some time. I am one of the few who do but I am well booked up til at least mid year.
And for big HP systems you better be ready to pay for it. But the benefits of this system far outweigh anything previously available. It is amazing to say the least. I have seen some things that would make you weep. The potential is huge.
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Old 22-01-09, 02:37   #15
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We do not sell bit of the system.
So unfair lol
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Old 22-01-09, 15:59   #16
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blownba can you clear your inbox wanted to get an adress so i can come down personaly and have a chat about the specific system i wanted
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Old 22-01-09, 19:14   #17
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lpg

Best to get him at his workshop dude

http://www.amautomotive.com.au/
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Old 24-01-09, 13:04   #18
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Also his name is Anthony
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Old 15-05-09, 07:21   #19
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i gotta quote from MRC in castle hill for my xr6t, 5.5k with injectors good for 250rwkw..
apparently they havent released any bigger injectors for it yet... is that right?
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