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Old 02-05-07, 12:47   #1
6BOOST
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The ASK 6BOOST technical thread

Hey all, as a lot of you are probably aware, I try to spend a lot of time answering questions and helping out where i can with technical advise and help. While this is fine and I love doing so to help you all out, over the past 2 years, I've noticed a trend towards being asked the same question a few times over. Hopefully, as time goes on, this thread will build up enough that I can direct someone here to read the same thing rather than write it again.

If there is anything at all you have a question about performance related, from suspension setup for drag racing, diff gears, bearing clearances, you name it, give me a yell and I'll see if I can answer it for ya:o)

Cheers.............................6BOOST
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Old 02-05-07, 12:50   #2
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Let me be the first to say thank you for taking the time to help others, people like yourself keep me coming back to this forum to learn something new :)

Much respect chief :)
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Old 03-05-07, 09:14   #3
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Thanks Dazza, I really appreciate it mate. I'm certainly no superman of the turbo world, and I don't gather knowledge to be able to use it for others, its just a by product of the fact I'm passionate about making hp, turbocharged in particular, and do so much research for my own gain, that its good to be able to to pass onto others. It also helps make my products worth their price ya know, when you can get so much advise and help with your setup anytime you need and get to draw on the knowledge of the previous 500 or so customers and what different mods have done on their car, its kinda like getting the experience of heaps of mistakes without making them:o)

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Old 04-05-07, 14:35   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazza102
Let me be the first to say thank you for taking the time to help others, people like yourself keep me coming back to this forum to learn something new :)

Much respect chief :)
I have to agree Kyle this thread is an awsome idea and it will definately show others that not only do you make manifolds but you can back your product up with a huge range of real world knowledge, testing and experience which a lot of competitors are lacking.
The fact you are always there to help is a testiment to your dedication of helping others.
Im not pis5ing in your pocket but a lot of performance people out there are only out for the dollars and once you purchase the product off them they couldnt give 2 sh1ts about you.
.

Last edited by calais25t; 04-05-07 at 14:37.
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Old 04-05-07, 15:04   #5
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This is an online database for success.. ;) agree with everything already said.
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Old 09-05-07, 10:21   #6
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Hey mate,

Thought I'd get some advice and words of wisdom from you, after reading through your thread you seem to be the guy to talk to.

I have started getting a reaplcement motor built, with this being what has been done so far - chemically cleaned block, crack tested, pressure tested, bored, decked, linished crank, forgies - Eagle H Beams are sson to be ordered.
Now my mechanic has stopped building motors and is jsut doing turbo servicing now so I still need to sort out a manifold and turbo etc.

Quite simply I have one stipulation from this motor - 500 RWHP - nothing less.

What are your thoughts on the best way to go to accomplish this ?

Any help is appreciated

Cheers

Kyle
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Old 09-05-07, 10:36   #7
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I reckon Kyle is gonna say T04z here..
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Old 09-05-07, 11:18   #8
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good thread idea kyle. hope people look at this before asking repetitive questions :D
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Old 09-05-07, 11:37   #9
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Hey Kyle, I'll answer as best as I can, based on a few variables.

First off, to you and anyone else out there attempting such power figures, I rarely would recommend doing so on pump fuel if your running a single cam head. Its not too hard/bad with a twin cam head but single cam will require far more boost and heat than I would like to see on pump fuel. Secondly to which, if you want 500rwhp with a single cam, pump fuel, and are running an auto, then I'd prob say forget it.

If your requirements stretch to running a single cam with a manual box, I'd make 500 your limit with pump jiuce, and yes, I'd recommend a TO4Z. Even better, I'd recommend a custom built GT35 with 67mm TO4Z comp wheel. Most people don't realise, but the GT35 exhaust side is only 2-3mm smaller than the TO4Z, but is more efficent, so it flows as much and spools earlier. If you add the 67mm comp wheel, you get the compressor efficency, along with added spool.

You can expect full boost with one of my kits around 3700rpm with a GT35 and 1.06 rear, possibly 3500 with .82 rear. If you step up to a TO4Z, I'd figure on needing around 3900-4000rpm to hit full boost, transient response(on off throttle) would be where you feel it more. The Z is def not a better street turbo, but is needed to make more power on less boost when pushing the envelope on pump fuel.

If we are talking about race fuel, then the GT35 will get you everywhere you want to go, its capable of 500rwhp either manual or auto, and well set up with an auto would be capable of a 9.9 in a full weight sedan. Always remember when building your engine that every $$ spent on your head and getting more air into the engine, will be rewarded double as much as any $$ spent anywhere else in the engine in terms of making power. An engine is just an air pump, it sucks in as much air as it can on any given stroke, and the more air you make capable of getting in(ie increasing the VE of the engine), the more power you will make, on ANY boost pressure.

So, are you auto or manual?? And do you want 500 on pump or race fuel??

6BOOST
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Last edited by 6BOOST; 09-05-07 at 11:40.
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Old 09-05-07, 12:03   #10
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Tough auto for sure, and pump fuel only. Really want this car to a a real tough street car, with the emphasis on being Street....
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Old 09-05-07, 13:50   #11
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For a genuinely regularly driven street car, 500rwhp is just overkill isnt it?
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Old 09-05-07, 13:55   #12
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500 on pump fuel isnt realistic mayb with a water to air cooler or ice box setup and yeh darren its way over kill itll never hook up on the street 400 is more then enough to be scary on the road
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Old 09-05-07, 14:10   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyndup
For a genuinely regularly driven street car, 500rwhp is just overkill isnt it?
Yeah pretty much, more just for fun. I dont want a race car as such, just something a bit mental I can play around in so to speak.
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Old 09-05-07, 14:43   #14
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The TO4Z would be my pick with an auto box, with correct converter selection and a well built auto like a KEAS box or similar, you'd prob feel very little difference between a GT35 and a TO4Z. The TO4Z is the minimum I would run on pump fuel at 500rwhp, but like I Said, your going to be very much pushing the envelope at those power levels in terms of engine safety.

If your engine isn't built yet, I'd highly recommend one of my head and cam packages, the cylinder heads flow 213cfm@28" with 1mm oversize stainless intake valves and 3mm oversize exhausts, 235 deg camshaft with suitable springs and collets and a JPC intake manifold, you'll need every bit of help in the airflow department you can get, and these are the highest flowing items on the market.

None of this is really a street car though, street to me would be a GT35 with 1.06 rear, rajab intake manifold, 3.5" exhaust, 8.6:1 compression and decent sized cam. You could expect a 7000rpm redline, full boost at 3700rpm, and 440-450rwhp on pump fuel and 23-24psi. It'd run 10's all day, be spastic on teh street, have more power than you could use on anything but slicks, and with race fuel up its tail and slicks, 520-540rwhp and 9.9's on C16 would be very possible.

Don't get caught up in power figures, they aren't anything to do with a fast car, or s street car. Look at Tubbed1, Jake has run a 9.27 on 460rwkw. That took over 30psi and race fuel, and has everything imaginable just about within the realm of a street car. SOmething to keep in mind;)

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Old 09-05-07, 15:38   #15
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"If your engine isn't built yet, I'd highly recommend one of my head and cam packages, the cylinder heads flow 213cfm@28" with 1mm oversize stainless intake valves and 3mm oversize exhausts, 235 deg camshaft with suitable springs and collets and a JPC intake manifold, you'll need every bit of help in the airflow department you can get, and these are the highest flowing items on the market".

Alright, the above sounds pretty interesting for sure. If possible give me a price and avail either here or via pm.

"None of this is really a street car though, street to me would be a GT35 with 1.06 rear, rajab intake manifold, 3.5" exhaust, 8.6:1 compression and decent sized cam. You could expect a 7000rpm redline, full boost at 3700rpm, and 440-450rwhp on pump fuel and 23-24psi. It'd run 10's all day, be spastic on teh street, have more power than you could use on anything but slicks, and with race fuel up its tail and slicks, 520-540rwhp and 9.9's on C16 would be very possible".

The above makes a lot of sense too, being able to attain that sort of figure on race fuel would still be quite good.
With one of your head/cam packages then, what turbo is it that you are recomending then - seems like you are leaning toward the GT35 with the 1.0 rear yeah ?

I appreciate this info too, sorting a lot of things out for me
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Old 09-05-07, 17:40   #16
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Yes, I would stick with the GT35 with a 1.06 rear, and a rajab intake manifold. We have just stepped up from a GT30 with .82 rear on Andy's car, and also gone from an NA intake to a rajab, and the car has a Keas 3 speed and TCE converter. It has only had a base tune on 10psi, and after his first drive he said it is virtually no different to the GT30, either transbrake or footbrake, and fries the tyres at will. I've done much testing with camhafts and intake manifolds with my packages, and this one continues to be the one that has the best spool, being absolutely ridiculous and almost unusable, and true 9 sec potential on race fuel.

We will have dyno results from Andy's car tomorrow night on pump fuel, but I'd expect at least 430-450rwhp on 24psi or less. Its not just a matter of picking the turbo, you need to match it to the intake manifold ans the camshaft, and in this case converter. Get the whole lot right, and while it may only run the same time as tom **** or harry does, when your fishtailing up the road next to them waiting for their lag monster to come on it will be smiles all round;o) And as you have said, "street" is the order of the day.

On another note, I highly recommend you get some Spool rods, and he also has a piston and rod package, they are a very good unit, have been tested by LukeVL to meet or exceed the specifications for 4340 chromoly, and are used in some very big hp cars. With the CP pistons in his package, we shave .040" off the head and run a .053 cometic gasket to end up at 8.6:1 compression, another big factor in helping spool and hp.

So a list of mods I'd be doing to the ultimate street RB include:

6boost head, 1mm oversize intake, 3mm oversize exhaust valves, 213cfm@28"
LukeVL camshaft, 235deg@.050, 520" of lift
Rajab Intake
VPW fuel rail and injector kit
Spool conrods and .020" CP pistons
ARP Head and main studs
New nissan RB30 oil pump
N1 water pump
Cometic .053 head gasket
6boost GT35 turbo kit with 1.06 rear
Full 3.5" exhaust
Keas 3 speed auto with TCE 3300rpm converter

I'd expect from a lot of experience around 450rwhp pump fuel 23psi, full boost 3700rpm, transbrake within 2-2.5 seconds, 530-550rwhp on 30-32psi and C16, 10.7@127 in full weight calais pump fuel, 9.90@136 on C16 in full weight calais.


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Old 09-05-07, 17:56   #17
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damn very impressive, everything, im loving this thread
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Old 09-05-07, 19:14   #18
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Alright, definately taking all of this on board.
What sort of dollars am I looking at for the head/cam package ?
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Old 09-05-07, 23:03   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyndup
For a genuinely regularly driven street car, 500rwhp is just overkill isnt it?
The problem is you always want more, i could fall asleep driving my car
on the street when it went 132mph..boring:)

Have to ring you soon Kyle, what is the detonation threshold with a Gt35 turbo
and 8.6 comp with pump fuel?? what boost versus timing on the limit???

I'll will probally be after rods/pistons in the next few weeks, find out friday/monday if the dude buys my Gtr head
cheers
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Old 10-05-07, 00:06   #20
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I was happy with mine frying tyres at 60km/h in 2nd Dazz, Lol....anyway sent you PM Kyle.
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Old 10-05-07, 08:44   #21
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I love this thread..
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Old 10-05-07, 09:39   #22
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Yeah but your nuts Darren:o)~

The trick is that when you have high compression ratio's, you get more bottom end torque and faster spool. There is if anything more hp as well, so all are benifits, you then add a larger than usual camshaft with good lift but extra duration, which bleeds off cylinder pressure at the torque peak, especially in an RB30, as its usually around 3500-4000rpm, and detonation is suppressed. Now you have a larger cam that makes far more top end power, with a wider spread of power giving effectively more area under the curve, which is what makes a car fast, and zero trade off in spool and bottom end power.

The torque VS timing curve would certainly be less than a lowe compression engine, but keeping in mind that without water injection like your running, we are trying to make as much power with as fast a spool as possible, then let race fuel take care of it over a set point, which in the case I believe would be nice and reliable around 23psi and 450rwhp. Also remember that standard compression with CP's is 8.2:1 anyway, we haven't even raised it half a point over what most people wouldn't even ask about, it is however almost 1 full point higher than stock at 7.8:1. Another interesting thing to note is high compression engines really seem to hold out power to redline and sing high in the revs....

My new 1G has 9.44:1 compression, 255@.050" cams, and an expected redline of 10k. I reckon it'll make more power everywhere with less timing than it did before and spool my turbo at least 500rpm quicker.

6BOOST
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Old 10-05-07, 13:25   #23
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Alright, definately taking all of this on board.
What sort of dollars am I looking at for the head/cam package ?
Any idea here for me ?
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Old 10-05-07, 14:39   #24
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The head with valves ready to bolt on is $1800, this isn't justa port job with some valves slapped in, its a completely redone head with new guides, new inserts, port work, stress relieve, clean, test, assemble, you will need springs and camshaft on top of this. Springs are only about $150, cam is between 230 and 350 depending on how big you go, regrind is lesser, billet is dearer.

With freight, billet camshaft, faced lifters, and head assembled ready to bolt onto your engine I'd say it will cost you about $2500 to your door. Its in the same territory as any of the fastest single cams in the country, we did much development and testing on Colin's head when we did that one with test ports, bog, short turn mods, and came up with teh best we could get out of that port.

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Old 10-05-07, 14:42   #25
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Any idea here for me ?
Yep Im interested too
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