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Old 04-10-11, 01:04   #1
wpnsx
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Car: GTR 32 Daily, Cheap VL Build.
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Build for CHEAP, but still NICE and FAST (I hope)

Build for CHEAP, but still NICE and FAST.

I apologize in advance for the sheer amount of words that are in this post.

I'm not really sure how to upload photos just yet. I have tried to put a few links in but I have little faith they will work. I have also put in a request to become a legitimate member and hopefully this makes the photo thing easier.

IF THE PHOTOS DONT WORK I HAVE UPLOADED THEM TO AN ALBUM;

http://www.imagehosting.com/photo/imgp1335?context=user



Hi all, my name is Rob, currently in the process of building up a VL with the aim of costing me very little all to do so. Something already done to death I know but I have really enjoyed both the research and build so far to date. Any constructive comments are welcomed and appreciated. Keep the negative stuff to yourself unless you can at least make it sound constructive.

Anybody that takes the time to read this, thank you in advance. There is a lot of info, if you want any more info or photos let me know and I will be happy to help.

First of all I started with an amazingly cheap, almost completely standard White NA Auto December 87 VL. I was quite happy to find it for the good price of $1250 on Gumtree Victoria. Very clean, straight and original. In fact the only modifications to the car was a stereo, some type of yellow springs on the back(standardish height) and for some reason Koni adjustable shocks on the rear… score! Has a ding in the boot and a couple of ripples here and there that can only be seen in the right light angle. The thing really impressed me with the car was the door jam things all work really well and do not make any noises when you open them. I have had 2 other VL’s and these both issues where the door jam attached back the car body and this cannot be fixed (to my knowledge) because its part of the body. Anyway, enough about the car and on with the build.

First consideration was the gearbox, I chose manual because I don’t really like auto’s and a viable manual gearbox can be had a lot cheaper than any auto. I had acquired the gearbox a few weeks earlier and done a bit of a number on it as you will soon see. The gearbox is out of a late 32 GTR skyline which I picked up for a steal at $150. Don’t ask me why so cheap, I called the guy from Skylines Australia, he said he was moving out of his house and if I went and picked it up the night he would do it cheap.

Being a 4wd gearbox meant that some modification had to be done to be useful in the VL. Here is what I did;



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Ugly huh? Lucky its under the car and won’t be seen. What you can see here is the side of the transfer case which I have hacked off, faced flat with a sanding block, made a plate to go over, drilled and tapped holes to hold it on. In this photo you can also see that I have removed all the **** that goes inside the case. The next photo you can see that there is now just a bare shaft that goes through the transfer case, This saves quite a lot of rotating mass.

http://www.imagehosting.com/photo/imgp1360?context=user

Now all back together and on the back of the box. Starting to test out the short shifter which I will use. $50 from the states.



Along with the gearbox I acquired a lot of other small parts which were needed for the conversion such as, slave cylinder ($26 new), Nismo leather Knob, push type clutch conversion gear, clutch ($200 apparently an original Nissan heavy duty), flywheel/bolts. Clutch pedal, master cylinder. Notice in there I mentioned pull to push conversion stuff. Because the gearbox was off a late 32 they utilized a pull type clutch. Why Nissan switched I have no idea, I never intended to use pull type clutches because they are more expensive for starters and there are a lot less performance options out there.
I did a lot of research about the pull to push conversion and ordered an array of parts from the states. Basically the whole release system needs to be changed and normally the front cover of the gearbox where the pivot ball screws into. I used parts which were meant for z32 300zx because I found the parts to be interchangeable, cheap and available. Apparently with heavy duty clutches sometimes the standard push type clutch fork is known to flex a bit and results in a bit slower changes and feel from the pedal. I got a heavy duty cast clutch fork for about $5 more than I could get the standard one anyway. Also I got a chromoly pivot ball which needed to be a different length due the cast fork. Pictured below.



Also shown is the small adapter plate which I had to make instead of changing the front cover of the gearbox (saved probably $150 here). The only thing which did turn out to be a bit difficult was getting enough clearance so that the clutch would fully release. I had to mill a little bit off the face where this adapter plate bolts to.
That’s enough on the box… back to car. Here she is in all here glory;



So I ripped the auto out and did the first test fit with the GTR box. Not good. Before it was barely off the ground it began fouling where the chassis brace bolts onto. It was a difficult decision to make to take the air hacksaw to it… but I just told myself that the car only owed me $1250 and it had to be done. Next try was a little more encouraging, I could almost bolt it up the engine with the engine tilted a bit. I work alone so man handling the gearbox in and out is not an easy task, to keep the number of times that I take it in and out to a minimum I made lists of stuff that I had to do in whilst I had the box in or out. Things on the list mainly consisted of getting the bloody thing to physically fit in there. Quite a lot of “massaging” was carried out on the gearbox channel, along with grinding the gearbox’s “fins” to gain those all important millimeters of clearance. This photo gives an idea of how tight this thing is in there. This is the opening where the shifter comes through. And it is even tighter at the back of the box where the transfer case is.

*** Im pretty sure these photos Im trying to add arent working and I cant be bothered copying more links** When I get a member ship Ill add them later. Just check out the link at the top of the post for all the photos.***

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Eventually after a lot of hammer time, grinding and man handling of the box in and out, I got it to fit up in there high enough. So then I had to make some mounts to hold her steady. The auto cross member fitted up fairly nicely, but I had to use the bolts most forward, and to do so had to alter the cross member a little.

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You can see here what I did to it shown next to the standard one. For the mounts, I again started with the standard auto ones and altered them to be bolted to the box. I made a little short pieces of 6mm steel plate which were then welded to the hacked up standard mounts.

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Now the box is firmly secured, I need to get the power to the diff. This posed a couple of challenges given the GTR box has a rather large flange off the back where the tail shaft bolts up to. Initially I spoke with a tail shaft place about getting one made, but due the flange arrangement it would have ended up quite pricey. Here is the adapter flange I made from the standard yoke and some more of the 6mm steel plate.

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Then it was just a matter of shortening the front section of the tail shaft and welding it all together. Turned out fairly neat I reckon. The only problem I may have to re do it differently because the diameter of the flange is too big and hit the body under hard acceleration. Here’s some other stuff along the gearbox pathway.

Various photos

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Here you can see the aluminum plate I made to seal the box. And the skyline sealing boot I used which does hell of a lot better job than the holden one. A side note. I used the short shifter photo’d previously however the rigid shifter didn’t feel very good to me so I grafted the standard rubber insulated shifter to the shortened shifter bottom section. Result. The shift from 1st to 2nd is about 60-70mm measured at the top of the knob, while still feels nice thanks to the rubber. Also I believe this allows faster shifting because you can load up the shifter before backing off and the lever then “bounces” out to the next gear itself, instead of waiting until your whole arm moves. Just a little theory of mine.

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Here is the clutch pedal, I beefed up the size of the bolt which holds the yoke for the pushrod because VL’s always have ****ty feeling clutches.


So, after 3 weeks of very dedicated work, I took her out for a drive. Amazingly the tailshaft does not shudder at any of the speeds I have taken her to. Box feels probly better than the one my daily drive GTR skyline which is a bit of a surprise and the short shifter really does feel amazing. Clutch pedal feels very good also. Total cost of the conversion including the clutch was $870. Now I have a strong box, and can replace it very cheaply if I do break it (good possibility). Would I do it again? Yes but only because I have now done it once and the second time would be easier. I probably would not recommend this conversion to other though as it is quite involved.

Next up. BRAKES. Pretty standard setup. VT calipers ($0.99 off ebay), Started with VT Booster then changed to VS plastic ($30) and feel it is better, Turbo Rotors ($90), VT Master ($15), VT Flexible lines, VS Non IRS RHS Hard line ($7), Then all the other lines I bought a double flare tool and made the bubble head looking flare. So the entire brake setup costed me $143 (not including the $40 flare tool) and combined with the rear end disc upgrade the brakes are truly amazing. I can almost blow on the pedal hard enough to make it stop, while there is still very nice feel from the pedal. Dont think I really took and photos of the brake upgrade, its all standard commo stuff apart from the flaring of the lines.


Next up. DIFF. After hunting all over melbourne at every self serve wreckers I know of, I finally found what I was looking for. A certain falcon with a Borg Warner 28 spline 4 pinion LSD centre... aka VL Turbo diff centre. This was the last one available in melbourne for the price I got it. Then it was a long hard day in the rain at Harvey Wreckers down in frankston area. I pulled out the Centre from the falcon (craking the ring gear before removal), then did the same to a VN, put the LSD centre into the VN housing... wala LSD, 28 spline, Disc brake conversion for my VL. How much? $110. I reckon that is pretty farken good. As for the extra 20mm width, I will be gettting custom 8 inch wheels made for the car anyway and have them alter the offset so as to push the wheel back in the guard a little bit.



The car now had the complete drivetrain/brake setup to handle the power of turbo. However the ECU running the car would not be capable of supporting the turbo. Enter the Megasquirt. A $200 fully programmable ECU, that has absolutely amazing AMAZING tuning software. Other ECU's do have similar programs but the megasquirt is aimed at the type of road tuning and the software is better than any other IMO. So part of the megasquirt is that you construct it yourself, meaning I placed an order for a kit including a PCB and a whole heap of electronic components, then you have to solder it all together and set it up for your car specific application. Because the VL is allready EFI it was really quite an easy implementation.

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I can hapily go into more detail with the setup of the Megasquirt, but it probably doesnt interest ppl in here too much.If any1 wants to know more flick me a msg and Ill get some info to you. To quickly explain a little bit about the Megasquirt. It runs 2 banks of batch fire injection, controls the ignition timing, can run any injectors, boost up 22 pound, has other outputs for thing like electronic boost control, thermo fans, knock control etc. At about $200 IMO you cannot beat this thing. Even a nistune setup is at least twice that and then you are limited by the AFM. The megasquirt uses a MAP sensor so you dont have this restriction.


I hacked up a VL ecu and got the male plug so I could make a little adapter loom the plug in the megasquirt. Later on I will mount the megasquirt inside a Standard ECU box so Mr. police officer does know its any different to standard. Car actually fired first turn of the key on the megasquirt and after alittle playing with the fuel map and warm up enrichments had her idling reasonably. Few days later after a fair of road tuning the car was starting and running great on the megasquirt. To make my base timing map I sort of just looked at the standard VL one and took about 10 degrees out at total advance and tried to make it look the same. Dodgy yes. But somehow it worked very, very well. Having only tuned the fuel map, the car allready feels as quick or better than the standard ECU.


OKAY. At this I felt I had done pretty much everything the prep the car for the key upgrade... TURBO!!! And conveniently it arrived around this time from the states.

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If your wondering wtf this thing, keep reading. Holset HX35W, found on cummins 6BT 5.9L I6 Deisel, found on Dodge ram 3500 utes in the states. I picked this up delivered for $400 from the states. Guys in the states are running these on 2L DSM's and quoting good hp figures with quick spool RPM's. I've read as high as 5 and 600whp but I think this is some guys not happy with there manhood saying these figures. Trap speeds are alot better indicators of hp than dyno's IMO. I beleive this turbo will be capable of similar power to that of a GT30r with the largest turbine housing. But we will just have to wait and see. Now the reason I chose this turbo is a) price, b) self rebuildability, c) apparently they will out spool a garret of similar total hp flow.


Combined with the intercooler, this was a fairly big implementation. First thing was physically fitting the turbo in the bay on the standard manifold. Initially I used peices of wood the space it off the try and find the "sweet" spot for it. Eventually the spacer required was an angled, tapered duvilacky that I made out the good old 6mm steel plate. Now the turbo was firmly in place so now I could begin mounting the intercooler.

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Intercooler is off a r34 GTR skyline, keeping with the oem GTR gear. I feel this is by far the best intercooler available, if not paying over $1000 for something like a ARC, PWR, Good Jap brand. Given the fact I picked this baby up for $143 shipped from ebay. Definetly the most cost effective cooler around.

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It fitted up amazingly, All I had to do was drill out the spot welds which hold the supports for the headlight trays, now the cooler goes hard back up against the front wall thing of the engine bay, and fits even fits in without cutting the bumber at all. I made up these cool little mounts with sheet metal and my recently acquired TIG welder. First job on the TIG welder so welds are butt ugly, all the same I am still very happy with the mounts cause I didnt have to drill a singly hole in the body or anything to mount the cooler. And using the same rubber grommit thing as the bottom of the radiator, the top mounts actually hold the cooler while you bolt the bottom mounts on.

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Now for some cooler piping. It was either stainless or aluminum, I did a bit of practise welding with alum and it it farken difficult to say the least. Im sure I will get there eventually but for cooler pipes that are in you face it wasnt worth it and the stainless was much more viable. I bought all the bends from tubesales in thomastown. I think all up including the stuff to make the dump pipe it cost me $300.

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The type of welding on the cooler piping is some weird name but basically not using any filler rod to do so. You have to get a perfect fit on the join, but then the welding is easy as and really does look great. I would say to anybody that has ever considered buying a TIG welder... do it. It is very, very satisfying holding up piping like this after making it youself from nothing.

1683 Stealthy hey?

With the coolside all plumbed in, time to get the exhaust out. I bought a 3.5 inch cat back exhaust from a guy of ebay for about $220 deliverd. I thought it was like a full length system but turns out it stops about 1 meter short of the diff.

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Given the exhaust is custom, and the turbo is custom, there is no off the shelf dump pipe so I had to fabricate this. Good old 6mm steel plate formed both the flanges and 3 and about 1 1/4 inch stainless formed the rest. I was pretty happy with it in the end.

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025 - The old 6mm Steel on the cold saw.
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Turbo almost all plumbed in. Just got an oil feed and return. For the feed I used the 2 banjo fitting things from the auto trans cooler and a peice of the hose that was used for the trans cooler also. Made a couple of banjo bolts myself. Makeshift at this point, I'll see how it goes maybe ill get a braided one made up down the track. For the oil return, a peice of high temp 3/4 inch hose and some 3/4 inch copper with an elbow.

Oil feed and retun pics.

So... time for some boosting, but first I ran the car breifly without the oil retun line hooked up to verify the turbo was getting a good flow of oil through it. Successful so I hooked up the return line started her up. Hang on, at this did not have a wastegate actuator. The Holset turbo came with one but I think they run 20 or 25 pounds standard which was far too much for me. So I cut open the actuator and put in a really light spring. Opens very early, like a couple of pounds but I am having some issues. The actuator is not pushing far enough to fully open the flapper valve and Im having boost level issues. To be sorted out later.


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A bit of extra fuel, rework of the fuel map, ignition map, bit of retardation of timing, now she is ready for poitive manifold pressure, first drive out we hit about 140 kpa (4-5 psi) 4500rpm, injectors 100% duty cycle and leaner afrs than I would like at the point of the map. INJECTORS MAXED. As expected the standard NA injectors not much use.

A couple of other little things I've done here; Autometer gauge added inside the original SL cluster. I think it looks pretty stealthy and cool. Also check out the AFR gauge I made. The AFR gauge is running off an AFM1000 Air-Fuel Analyzer which is the most accurate wideband controller (under 3k). Its really probably a level above an autronic B model which is what all the dyno setups use here in Aus. The AFM1000 is what all the good tuning shops in the states have. I acquired a number of them for a steal of a guy on the Jegs pro stock team. Also check out the Apexi boost gauge (I wanted Kpa so I know where on the fuel map I am).

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So what next. surge tank, additional 2 standard fuel lines, some type of 600-1000cc injectors, 044 pump, and another dataloggin setup to enable higher res, logging to begine some ignition advancing. Oh wait I forgot - a tank of E85



Just have to ad. Im and now in singapore for hrmm... 3 months at least so nothing more will happen on the car for a while but I will use this time to research and purchase the components of the fuel system.


If anyone can help me get the photos on the page it would be good.


Thoughts guys???

Last edited by wpnsx; 28-12-12 at 21:01. Reason: Add photos
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Old 04-10-11, 10:50   #2
leb vlt
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Very interesting build and can't wait to see the pics mate.
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Old 04-10-11, 11:19   #3
Gab dH
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This sounds awesome! You really need to get the pics sorted though..

try uploading to photobucket or imageshack as they'll give you links you can use on this forum
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Old 04-10-11, 17:08   #4
wpnsx
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I'll try photo bucket tonight. Does the link on the 4th line that I gave work if you guys click on that?

---------- Post added 04-10-11 at 23:04 ----------

Testing,

.
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Old 05-10-11, 08:49   #5
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try



on the right pane in imagshack, expand 'embed' then use the 'forum' code
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Old 05-10-11, 11:01   #6
5spdvl
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This is my new favourite place to be. Built not bought. As above, you really gotta include pics. Just copy-pasta the [IMG]image link[/IMG] into your CT post and it should show up.

Question: did you use a gasket or sealant on the plate you made to cover up the hole left by the transfer case? It will leak otherwise.

Also, is this VL 6 speed now?
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Old 05-10-11, 12:54   #7
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Info on the megasquirt would be good.. they were pretty popular in the 90's.

90% of guys wouldn't want to put them together though.
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Old 05-10-11, 23:35   #8
wpnsx
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Re Photos: The admin just now got back to me and Ive paid so should be able to put up the pictures very soon.


5spdvl: Yeh I used gasket sealant on the plate thing, and pretty much every other face Ive had to seal. To my surprise it all seems to be sealed, time will tell. Car is not 6 speed, To get six 6 speed you would have to buy getrag gtr34 box which generally goes for 2k at least. Since Im using this for drag, I reckon less gears before 1:1 is probably better.


Duke57TT: Info on megasquirt... where do I start. The one I used is the most basic MS1ExtraCode. There is now MS3Extra, which actually runs a faster processor than the top Motec, is around $500 or $600 assembled... but the term assembled means the easy part is done. Assembling is not difficult, if you can solder and follow instructions you can do it. I'd say the difficult bit is understanding how a lot of the sensors work and customizing the megasquirt to suit. Overall it was wayyy easier than I thought and for the price I was happy to give it a go and throw it away if I didnt have the ability.

Megasquirt construction info: www.megamanual.com

Have a look through here at the assembly instructions youl see its really not difficult at all.

Purchasing and pricing: www.diyautotune.com

You can actually purchase them all pre-built, but they would still require some "modding" to make work. I would not recommend buying pre-built because as easy as the build is, you will learn stuff that will help you implement the unit.

One thing that made it a very easy decision for me to buy this thing is the fact that the most basic MS1 (mine) will use the same trigger disk as specified by autronic, so an autronic (highly regarded ecu) does not receive any more positioning info than this simple unit.

Also very good is the capability of the MS to run alternate ignition setups like; Coil-on-plug or wasted spark. In the future I would like to have a go at setting up a budget AU falcon wasted spark Coil pack triggered only by the crank.

Also there is some tuning software; Tunerstudio. Which costs about $70 for the full version has an AMAZING fuel map auto tune feature. You basically plug in your target AFR map, lambda delay map and the best quality wideband controller that you can afford and off you go. I'm not familiar with other autotune offerings out there but I do not believe they record multiple data points for each load point the way the tunerstudio autotune does and thus really rely on have steady-state (dyno) tuning. As for road tuning ignition, thats another kettle of fish.

Its quite a broad subject which I am happy to type about (as you can see), so if you have any more Q's please don't hesitate.

cheers,

Rob
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Old 06-10-11, 14:40   #9
5spdvl
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Ahh balls, was going to say popping a 6 speed in for $150 and a bit of hard work is awesome in my book (not that what you've done is any less awesome).

Last edited by 5spdvl; 06-10-11 at 14:42. Reason: Playing around with including OP's [IMG][/IMG] tags
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Old 09-10-11, 22:03   #10
wpnsx
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It seems the Admin is taking some time to make me a proper member. This is another photo test.

[IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

---------- Post added 09-10-11 at 22:08 ----------

OK seems to be working. Does anyone know why I can't edit the original post (or any of my others for that matter)? Now I have the photos working I can put them in.

[IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

---------- Post added 09-10-11 at 22:19 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by wpnsx View Post
It seems the Admin is taking some time to make me a proper member. This is another photo test.

[IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

---------- Post added 09-10-11 at 22:08 ----------

OK seems to be working. Does anyone know why I can't edit the original post (or any of my others for that matter)? Now I have the photos working I can put them in.

[IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
[IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

[IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

Cooler mounts
[IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

[IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

[IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
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Old 13-11-11, 12:16   #11
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Those welds look nice! How did you go about fitting the autometer gauges in the standard dash?
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Old 30-11-11, 22:39   #12
wpnsx
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Hey thanks for the comment mate. Im guessing your refering to the welds on the stainless pipe. If you get the piping to fit up good enough to one another you can tig weld without filler rod and its really easy to make it look good.

The gauge was fairly easy also, basically pull the Autometer gauge one apart until you have just a motor looking thing without the needle. Then drill holes in the standard clock and mount the gauge kind of through the holes. I didnt use any of the cup or bezel from the autometer unit. What you can see is just like the finishing dial plate thing which is sitting on top of the standard clock.

I will prolly have to pull the cluster out again for one reason or another, if you want I can take some photos of the gauge setup?
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