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Old 11-09-03, 23:15   #1
mr_ice55
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Vl Turbo on gas?

Im in the market to purchase a VL Turbo, and am worried about the expensive of fuel, and was wondering how does a vl turbo run on dual fuel, i mean in terms of power. I know there is power loss, also ive heard that putting it on straight gas is the best option, but unsure on prices, im in the melbourne area, so any suggestions for places that are good for straight gas performance. Any suggestions or advice on this matter will be appreciated. Also when they do a straight gas conversion, does the gas fuel tank go in the same location as the current fuel tank, or in the boot????
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Old 12-09-03, 10:50   #2
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there is a bloke who owns a xf falcon who runs straight gas his name is jason and its a turbo there is also a vl on fullboost that his mate owns which runs straight gas and they both swear buy it
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Old 12-09-03, 10:51   #3
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dude if you want a fast car you can't be worrying about fuel costs...
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Old 12-09-03, 10:54   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exmotrbo
dude if you want a fast car you can't be worrying about fuel costs...
can't have said it beter myself... if your worried about fuel buy a N/A VL or a 4cyl. ( or even one of those jap 3cyl things..)
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Old 12-09-03, 11:25   #5
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I dont need a lecture on worrying bout buying a n/a vl or anything like that, i wanna know how good it will run on dual fuel, or straight gas. I want a turbo and i want it on gas
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Old 12-09-03, 11:29   #6
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then get in contact with "Gas Research", they are ment to do the best conversions. Don't know their number.
But if your doing it to save money on fuel, it's gonna take you a long time to make the thousands your gonna spend for a conversion back on fuel savings.
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Old 12-09-03, 11:31   #7
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yeah ive heard anywhere in the price of $3500, it would take quite some time to make that money back, but im just weighing up all the options i have at the moment, and then making a informed decision when the time comes.
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Old 12-09-03, 15:48   #8
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Hey isn't it true that gas has a higher octane rating then premium?

If thats the case you could get away with higher compression/forced induction and not worry about detonation soo much. I have also heared that EFI engines (new ones not old ones) with a loop can adjust due to this reason so you get almost the same amount of power out of gas as petrol.

Another thing, doesn't gas produce more heat then petrol? If so that would explain why dad had heat problems and ended up with a cracked head on his van. (The van is a carby job though not EFI)

I have heard that you can get gas to be as powerfull as fuel but it costs a lot of money in head work and compression has to be changed for a strait conversion. Duel conversion you loose quite a bit of power, from my experiance with the van quite a bit of power infact.

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Old 12-09-03, 16:42   #9
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Ask FLWLSS, I think from memory he was gunna do a full on gas system on his VLT but it was gunna cost too much to be worthwhile.
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Old 12-09-03, 16:48   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B15HOP
Hey isn't it true that gas has a higher octane rating then premium?

If thats the case you could get away with higher compression/forced induction and not worry about detonation soo much.

.....

Another thing, doesn't gas produce more heat then petrol? If so that would explain why dad had heat problems and ended up with a cracked head on his van.
And that is what I understand is the problem with using gas on a high-boosted turbo. Good news, you have a higher octane rating and hence in theory can have more boost. Bad news: you mostly lose this advantage because the gas burns hotter and you don't get the charge cooling effect from fuel vapourising and the hot charge can promote detonation.

I think LPG (pure system only) is a worthwhile option on n/a cars where the cooling load is less, but on an lpg turbo I'd be making sure I had an awfully good intercooler...
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Old 12-09-03, 18:51   #11
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Agree,

Don't bother with dual fuel! Go strait!

To hard to find a good medium tune for both. But yes, as with the rest, better as far as no pinging!
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Old 12-09-03, 19:05   #12
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LPG has a much better octane than petrol (~120 I believe), which allows for higher boost in boosted applications .. I've got dual fuel on my car (NA) and its good for economy, but i'm planning to go straight gas when I can afford it .. also plannin do some LPG friendly performance mods to make it run better on LPG .. basically: extractors, 2.5 or 2.25" exhaust, LPG cam, possibly even increase compression to take advantage of the extra octane rating .. Also still trying to find out if your straight gas, if you can legally remove the cat .. LPG doesnt need one .. iv had 2 different answers now .. one says if your straight gas (no fuel pumps or tank for petrol) then you can remove the cat, another says if it came factory with a cat, it must always have a cat .. so im not 100% sure yet ..
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Old 12-09-03, 19:23   #13
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I thought cats are only needed for duel fuel?
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Old 12-09-03, 19:34   #14
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Well thats what I need to find out for sure .. I was hoping if you were straight gas, no Cat needed .. given im getting new exhaust when I do the straight gas setup, I'd like to find out and have it made up so it comes straight off the extractors
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Old 12-09-03, 22:01   #15
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Have'nt seen or heard anything about that blue Calais built by Jason that runs straight gas best time he could get was a 11 something, and then it all of a sudden disappered.?
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Old 13-09-03, 13:00   #16
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anyone know how much a straight gas setup is
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Old 13-09-03, 14:58   #17
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I agree with the first comments.

If you want economy, DONT butcher a (becoming) rare car like a VLT with dual fuel...If you want power, it costs money. Dont whinge because you cant have your cake and eat it too.

Buy an n/a and run it on gas, and stop bitching about fuel prices when you're in search of performance.

And as for "waahh waaah, my fuel costs are too high" - I'd be more worried about insurance and tyre costs. Get a charade for fuel economy.

I earn ~$150 a week and can still afford to run my car and go out. Budgeting > *

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Old 13-09-03, 16:26   #18
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mr_ice55: Depends on how much you get new, and how much second hand. And how much you do yourself. Legally theres a limit to how much you do yourself, i think you have to be certified to do the pipework, or at least some of it, but you can install and mount the mixer/carby, and the tank yourself. You can get complete setups for $800 or less on ebay that iv seen, or you can buy it all new for > $2000. www.gasresearch.com.au sells very high quality carby's and mixers. Very tuneable for performance.
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Old 14-09-03, 11:32   #19
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FLWSS was planning a straight gas conversion but for the performance he wanted it was going to cost 9 grand from memory.
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Old 14-09-03, 12:07   #20
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Haha looking at fuel prices recently and Gas has gone up in price (here in perth) and petrol gone down. About a month ago gas was almost 1/3 the price of petrol, now its more then half the price. This makes gas conversion less then a viable propasition since the intitial outlay far outweighs money saved in the lifetime of the car. This would be especially true if you want a performance conversion (strait of course) in order to preserve the power of your engine. Not to mention that once this has been done you will have a heavier foot to get the same bang out of your engine. So unless technology helps improve gas conversion efficiency and/or the govt keeps gas prices at a reasonable level, you might as well stick with what you have got. Otherwise go right ahead if your just a day to day "go to the shops on weekends" kind of VL turbo.
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Old 14-09-03, 12:33   #21
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Years ago I owned an XC GXL with a 302. it used to guzzle fuel, so I put it on gas, it cost me $1200 to do that. Mind you gas was at 17cents a litre! So it was definately worth it, considering it was costing me about $70 a week in petrol and only 25-30 in gas.
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Old 14-09-03, 13:01   #22
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Price of LPG has gone thru the roof compared with petorl.

Used to be under 20cents, during that Sadams oil price war it was like nearly 60 cents.
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Old 14-09-03, 16:11   #23
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I've had LPG as low as 25 cents in the last 6 months, around 35-40 cents now .. but considering here premium is 95+, and my cars petrol performance is less than impressive anyway .. besides, iv already got it .. I think if your buying a used car, get one with gas .. well worth it then, coz gas doesnt affect resale price much ..
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