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Old 05-06-04, 18:28   #1
wagon01
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questions on l.p.g setup.

After reading about vlmuzza acomplishments over the last few months ive been considering the idear of gas too, but what i would like to know is a few basic things about it. I really dont know anything about whats required ect. Some info would be good in regards to whats needed/not needed.

For instance i believe a gas system wouldnt need a a pump(like a fuel pump) due to it being pressurized, but im not sure about this.

From what i can see vlmuzza dosent have any injectors so im assuming an ems only needs to be spark only for gas.

How is the gas fuel ratios adjusted in a gas system too?

Sorry for so many question, but i realy would like to know as at the moment petrol prices are soaring and i belive i may be relocated to altona in the next few months(work realted). As i live in mooroolbark and it would be quite a distance to travel.

So putting a straight gas setup on the car is definantly viable to do with the savin on fuel.
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Old 05-06-04, 19:34   #2
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Dont know the technical reasons for it, but my bro's VN s-pack takes petrol and gas and when it is on gas it's a lot less torquey/powerful/accelerates not as quick despite the car being tweaked to run optimally on gas, its still not so good for performance. If you dont care though then the money you save buying gas is heaps.
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Old 05-06-04, 20:47   #3
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Get the latest Street Machine, it has a full write up on LPG gass hook ups. Has some cars there running on only gas with big HP.
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Old 06-06-04, 12:20   #4
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macky888, unels your bro's car has been rebuilt and completley setup for lpg only, its not going to like gas too much anyway. 99% of lpg systems avilable today are for economy purposes ( lower running costs not lower fuel consumption ) only.

all it takes is a look at cars like vlmuzza, ezy10, the silver XE on fullboost and the Red (Former TT) single turbo XE ESP. all these cars have been built by the same person, and that person has built the cars with the singular goal of high HP on lpg.

its not the fuel that is ****, its the aplication of the fuel.

do some serious research before knocking things. you might be surprised by what you find.
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Old 06-06-04, 12:34   #5
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Latest edition of Motor has a dig at the government about an LPG excise of 2.5 cents a litre to come in July 1, 2008 and rising to 12.5 cents a litre by 2012.

Of course by then PULP excise alone will probably be $1 a litre anyway.

Oh, and a bit of trivia for the day.....Car numbers in Victoria converting to gas last year was 4,700 versus 51,254 in 1994.
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Old 06-06-04, 13:34   #6
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Am not knocking LPG Maddnez, just sharing a few things about what I've seen. In fact I think a dual fuel car is an excellent idea. Run the LPG just for getting around, and the petrol when you wanna turn the ball up a notch (so to speak).

The LPG isnt bad - after my bro modified his car to run better for gas (car was bought with dual fuel already installed and then he optimized it) it is actually pretty good (he told me what he did but I completely forgot what he did now, I'll see if I can ask him, it was about half a year ago), and I was quite suprised. However when he switched the button to revert back to petrol, I did find the petrol was better for performance.

But I think its pretty much accepted a high octane fuel is *better* for performance than LPG. It doesnt mean you cant make the LPG run good though. I dont know heaps about it anyway, but I'm pretty sure thats the deal on LPG.
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Old 06-06-04, 13:47   #7
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I might just add that a gas tank weights a hell of a lot too, esp if you keep the petrol tank too.
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Old 06-06-04, 14:09   #8
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send a PM o PSHHHT he is making up a verry quick VLT using straight LPG and not the crap you buy at your local service station

as for dual fuel, go either one or the other as you will never get the tune dead even, one will be better than the other
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Old 06-06-04, 14:26   #9
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psssshhtt is making a lpg vlt, as am i

i understand what you are saying, but pump fuel has a octane max of 98.

the minimum octane is 105 for lpg, and if you get a batch of straight propane ( its normally cut with butane and misc others for cost reasons, cheap *******s ) then you are lookign at over 110. how can normal petrol compete with this?

the only reason LPG isnt commonly up there in high performance is that currently there are only a couple of people working to make hi-po lpg freely available.

why use dual fuel? it nothing but a very poor compromise.
why it may be commonly accepted that hi octane fuels are better ( some are.. but these ones are generaly over $2 P/L and if you get caught running them onm the street, bend over and kiss your arse goodbye.
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Old 06-06-04, 15:16   #10
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Quote:
the minimum octane is 105 for lpg, and if you get a batch of straight propane ( its normally cut with butane and misc others for cost reasons, cheap *******s ) then you are lookign at over 110. how can normal petrol compete with this?
Don't know! If what you are saying is right then perhaps my bro's car aint so perfectly tuned for gas after all - I have been under the impression it is as best as it could go with gas on his car and how it is the petrol seems better. Maybe there is better lpg setups out there.

Quote:
i understand what you are saying, but pump fuel has a octane max of 98.
True. BTW: Nothing to do with the thread, just happened to hear that there is a pertrol station here in WA in guildford that sells like 101 octane or something fuel but I dunno if its true
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Old 06-06-04, 19:53   #11
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macky888, dont take what i've said as an attack on you or you knowledge, i was aiming to get you thinking and to open your mind and think for yourself, not believe what everyone tells you.

by set up, i dont just mean tune. cam, compression, inlet etc ,and especialy the actual lpg system itself will all affect performance. if one link of the chain is not up then you stumble. just like normal fuel really, except that with lpg there is less of a knowledge pool there, people generaly cannot rectify the dramas.

vlmuzza is the perfect person to point at that has good results in out specific interest area, having un a 10.XX pass on lpg. his car has been setup really well to take benifit from the gas and as such has run a good time.
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Old 06-06-04, 20:04   #12
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you can only tune an engine for one fuel, petrol and LPG are so different in every way. I had a worked small block running 2 G.R.A LPG carbs, 1000 cfm all up, 1 huge convertor, 3/8 line and block-off, big compression, big valve alloy heads, Victor Junior intake, and she ran beautifully for a daily driven car and ***** all to run.

You can get some big horsepower from straight LPG with the right setup, and you don't have to worry about fuel pumps, regulators or polution.
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Old 06-06-04, 20:11   #13
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macky, the thread is talking about straight gas, not dual fuel.

with dual fuel you will lose power, doesnt matter how good your brother has it tuned.

straight lpg is probably more like a minimum of 100 octane rating.

gas is way more cheaper but it also burns quicker, but its probably worth it atm with the bloody prices.

www.gasresearch.com.au might be able to help you out.

gas is also perfect for emissions.


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Old 06-06-04, 20:25   #14
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Nothing wrong with straight gas at all. HOWEVER if you are thinking about running a gas research setup on your vl, better find yourself a haltech IG5 Ignition Controller. good luck finding one coz they are rare as ANYTHING, and you need one if you are going to run gas research on your vlt. definently worth it tho- and its EPA proof as well
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Old 06-06-04, 20:26   #15
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wood, when i first looked at lpg setups, i contacted the big companys lookign for info on the gas.
what i heard from the 'horses mouth' was mostly a minimum of 105, and a statement that the mix was varying aomunts of propane/butane, but always at a minimum of 105.

mobil said the same thing, except they stated their minum at like 110, if my memory serves me correctly.
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Old 06-06-04, 21:45   #16
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Hmmm..... interesting stuff. I dont take any of it as an attack on my knowledge Maddnez (however limited my knowledge may be :P), its all cool! I didnt know that the dual fuel is still less power even if tuned up. Straight lpg sounds good, I think I'm gonna go and see if I can learn more about it.

Quote:
mobil said the same thing, except they stated their minum at like 110, if my memory serves me correctly.
Hey, maybe its just a coincidence, but my bro has tried lpg from all over the place and reckons the mobil lpg is the best! Maybe mobil are doing something differently, esp now that you say their minimum octane is a high 110.
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Old 07-06-04, 08:01   #17
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[QUOTE=ITSGMH]you can only tune an engine for one fuel, petrol and LPG are so different in every way. QUOTE]

haha not if you have a aftermarket computer and have a map saved on disk, just upload the new map which is dyno configured, LOL.
Anyways, the Haltech IG5 is proven too work very well with gas, and a number of us straight gas guys are using it, but a AC Delco would be my next pick.
Yes pump LPG is great, and much higher in octane than Optimax, how ever if you can get the straight propane, your looking at very close to C16 level octane. and yep theres a bowser in Ballarat that supplies that stuff. LOL.

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