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-   -   R33 & R34 Boxes into VLT's (http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/showthread.php?t=52408)

pascal 30-08-05 17:09

R33 & R34 Boxes into VLT's
 
OK, with this topic being raised on a regular basis, i have decided that it should be covered in detail and people can then refer to thisin the future.

Many people have asked in the past (myself included), does the R33 syline box fit into a VLT, as it is fast becomming a popular choice as the factory boxes are giving it in after 17+ years of service.

I would like to invite anybody else who has more information in regard to this, or if anybody finds what i have said incorrect please add.



Going from my experiance,

1) A R33 or R34 5 spd will bolt sraight up to the RB30 as the RB20-30 are the same block.

2) Any VL N/A flywheel can be used as i am using the N/A flywheel and starter, some people say that the larger VLT flywheel hits the bell housing and some say its fine. It would be easier with the smaller N/A flywheel if available.

3) As far as i can tell (correct me if wrong) the VL N/A and VLT gerabox cross members are the same, they just bolt up to a different set of holes in the floor of the car. Hence my N/A x member bolted straight up to the R33 box. Some people have used spacers between the x mamber and the floor but you can also choose not to.

4) With regards to the tailshaft, i had my N/A shaft fully rebuilt and used that in the conversion, using the R33 stocked? front uni joint, adapted to the VL shaft. Im pretty sure that the VLT tailshaft can be used aswell, (thats if you can get your hands on one).

5) The speedo drive has to be costom made from any workshop who specialises in this area, and the speed has to be re callibrated. It has been said that a MF5(N/A box) speedo drive can be used also, with a bit aof playing around.

6) The slave cyl is different, so a Skyline slave will need to be sourced if not comming with the box, as the bolt pattern is different, or an adaptor bracket can be made to suit.

7) When it comes to installing the shifter, heat the bottom of the shifter up with an oxy and give it a slight bend in the foward direction, otherwise when in 2nd gear the shifter will hit or be very close to your handbrake.

With all this in mind you should not find it difficult to do the conversion.

Cheers Ben

orange_vl 17-09-05 20:16

ya learn something every day.

NinetySix 17-09-05 20:21

nice thread, be great to get some definitive info in here. pics would be sweet too :)

turboluke 17-09-05 22:53

mf5 speedo drive works with an automatic trans speedo cable. the mx7 speedo drive is "apparently" and mf5 one with the right angle adaptor. if you use the right angle adaptor then you can use the shorter manual cable. if not use and auto cable and bend it in, make sure the cable has some slack so it can bend as the egine/box twists. bending in the auto cable has proven to be reliable for me. the speedometer does NOT need to be recalibrated.

i went without the spacers. is smooth as.note...some tailshafts have spacers in the centre bearing carrier. use what works for you.

i got away without bending shifer, it is very close to handbrake though.

the standard VLT tailshaft fits perfectly, there is only a few mm difference in length but spline is designed to cope with some movement forwards and back

vlthunter 17-09-05 23:14

good article, couple of things left out i think, but gives a very good basis

Quote:

the standard VLT tailshaft fits perfectly, there is only a few mm difference in length but spline is designed to cope with some movement forwards and back
thats only the manual turbo tailshaft right?

87calais 18-09-05 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by pascal
OK, with this topic being raised on a regular basis, i have decided that it should be covered in detail and people can then refer to thisin the future.

Many people have asked in the past (myself included), does the R33 syline box fit into a VLT, as it is fast becomming a popular choice as the factory boxes are giving it in after 17+ years of service.

I would like to invite anybody else who has more information in regard to this, or if anybody finds what i have said incorrect please add.



Going from my experiance,

1) A R33 or R34 5 spd will bolt sraight up to the RB30 as the RB20-30 are the same block.

2) Any VL N/A flywheel can be used as i am using the N/A flywheel and starter, some people say that the larger VLT flywheel hits the bell housing and some say its fine. It would be easier with the smaller N/A flywheel if available.

3) As far as i can tell (correct me if wrong) the VL N/A and VLT gerabox cross members are the same, they just bolt up to a different set of holes in the floor of the car. Hence my N/A x member bolted straight up to the R33 box. Some people have used spacers between the x mamber and the floor but you can also choose not to.

4) With regards to the tailshaft, i had my N/A shaft fully rebuilt and used that in the conversion, using the R33 stocked? front uni joint, adapted to the VL shaft. Im pretty sure that the VLT tailshaft can be used aswell, (thats if you can get your hands on one).

5) The speedo drive has to be costom made from any workshop who specialises in this area, and the speed has to be re callibrated. It has been said that a MF5(N/A box) speedo drive can be used also, with a bit aof playing around.

6) The slave cyl is different, so a Skyline slave will need to be sourced if not comming with the box, as the bolt pattern is different, or an adaptor bracket can be made to suit.

7) When it comes to installing the shifter, heat the bottom of the shifter up with an oxy and give it a slight bend in the foward direction, otherwise when in 2nd gear the shifter will hit or be very close to your handbrake.

With all this in mind you should not find it difficult to do the conversion.

Cheers Ben


Have just done this conversion myself and want to add a couple of things. Also will throw a few pics up of some of the differences.

1) Agreed, obviously if your converting from auto to manual you would need all the associated parts as if you were fitting the MF5 or MX7 box.

2) The 10" VLT flywheel does rub ever so slightly on the R33 box's bellhousing, so use the 9.5" N/A flywheel. This isn't a problem as theres plenty of options to get a tuff clutch built in the 9.5" size. The other issue you would run into with this is the MX7 starter wouldnt fit. its mounting bolts have a wider spacing, so the skyline or N/A VL starter has to be used. Also you need to use a skyline / MF5 sandwich plate, or you can slot the starter motor mounting bolt holes in the MX7 sandwich plate to make it fit.

3) All VL gearbox crossmembers are the same. even auto - manual. its only the gearbox mounts off the crossmember that differ. The MF5 or MX7 crossmember will bolt straight up to the skyline box. The Spacers are needed on the MX7 and R33 boxes. Without them the box hits on the floorpan under hard acceleration. they also provide more clearance around the speedo drive area.

4) Tailshaft - you can use the MX7 tailshaft, it slides straight in. If you have an MF5 tailshaft you can use it, but you will need to get the front yoke changed to an MX7/R33 yoke. You can buy these new from Hardy Spicer for around $100 i think. Part number is 2R-3-2938, here is a link to the yoke in their catalougue. http://www.hardyspicer.com.au/browse...0 ;&NoDHTML=1

5) Speedo drive - The MX7 box's speedo drive will slide straight into the R33 box, and reads accurately - no recallibration required. When you compare the electric R33 sender and teh VL unit the drive gears are different sizes, but the VL's is already callibrated for the VL's speedo, the gear inside the gearbox that drives it is the same between the MX7 and R33 box. Not sure if the MF5 speedo drive is any good or not. You could still buy the MX7 speedo drives from nissan last time i checked, part number is 32702-02G17 , and they call it a "pinion assembly"

6) Slave cylinder - Yes, the bolt pattern on the bellhousing on the R33 box is totally different to the MX7 box. The MX7 uses 1 bolt either side of the slave cyl, the R33 uses 2 bolts on 1 side. easiest solution is to use the R33 slave cylinder, your VL clutch hose will screw straight into the R33 slave cyl. The only problem with this is that the skyline uses a smaller diameter slave cylinder than the VL. Skyline is 3/4" , VL is 7/8". This makes the pedal heavier , which probably wont bother most people.

7) Exactly. The MX7 and R33 shifters do fit the opposite box, but due to the length of the shifter below the pivot ball the MX7 shifter cannot be used in teh R33 box. The R33 shifter however makes a nice short shifter for the MX7 box! Just heat the R33 shifter and bend it till the top of the shifter is in a similar place to the MX7 shifter. The R33 shifter can be used as is, but ever so slightly touches on the handbrake button in 2nd gear, plus it puts a stretch on the shifter boot in 2nd, 4th, and R and id say would eventually tear the boot.

8)This is one to take note of. The clutch throwout bearing carrier is longer in the MX7 than in the R33 box. The bearing is identical, just the carrier is different. Most people ive talked to said to use the MX7 carrier. In my case i used the R33 carrier. I did this because i had used a skyline diaphram and clutch cover on my clutch, skyline box, slave cyl, clutch fork etc etc. The clutch operates perfectly with this setup in mine, but keep in mind that if you use a clutch designed for a VL you will probably need to use the MX7 carrier.

Heres a few pics showing some of the main differences/mods.

forst couple just show the 2 boxes side by side, and how far the sandwich plate holes need to be slotted of you use the MX7 sandwich plate.

87calais 18-09-05 10:21

These show the difference in the R33 and VLT speedo drives and the difference between the 9.5" and 10" flywheels.

87calais 18-09-05 10:23

and this shows the difference in the mounting points for the slave cylinders.

87calais 18-09-05 10:26

And this shows the difference of where the stick sits in 2nd gear if you dont mod the R33 shifter. The handbrake is up in the pics, but when down the R33 shifter ever so slightly touches the button on the handbrake lever.

Miz_VL_Turbo 18-09-05 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlthunter
good article, couple of things left out i think, but gives a very good basis

thats only the manual turbo tailshaft right?

thats correct

LukeVL 18-09-05 13:10

The MF5 speedo drive is completely different to the MX7. Smaller diameter, shorter etc. If you try to put the MF5 speedo drive in the MX7 chances are you will drop it in the box and not be able to get it back out. Honestly it can fall right in.

turboluke 18-09-05 19:38

i thought that might be the case that is why i used inverted commas!
I must have the mx7 one.
therefore.....
ONLY USE THE MX7 SPEEDO DRIVE. it can be used with or without the right angle adaptor

gmchaser 18-09-05 23:54

are the belhousing interchangeable?

NinetySix 19-09-05 15:37

there is no bellhousing

Bax 19-09-05 15:56

What the? There is no spoon.

Bellhousings between MX7 and R33/ changing over the internals and bellhousings.

Good question. If you wanted to keep your 10" and not have to grind away at the 33 bellhousing.

NinetySix 19-09-05 16:05

as in, the gearboxes have solid bell housings that cant be removed, its all once piece

HYBRID VL 21-09-05 13:25

can you grind anything away from inside the bellhousing to fit the 10 inch flywheel?

Krieger 21-09-05 15:13

why would you need/want to? the 9.5 fits fine.

Bax 22-09-05 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87calais
and this shows the difference in the mounting points for the slave cylinders.

How much clearance is around the slave cylinder. If a bracket was made how much room is there ??

BOOSTnWGn 22-09-05 21:21

Yeah as mentioned above. Is it possible to take a bit off the inside of the bell housing. I already have a decent clutch for my 10" flywheel. I'd hate to have to build another one.

LukeVL 23-09-05 15:01

You can't build clutches hilly you spastic. Yes you should be able to no worries.

MARMO. 23-09-05 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOOSTnWGn
Yeah as mentioned above. Is it possible to take a bit off the inside of the bell housing. I already have a decent clutch for my 10" flywheel. I'd hate to have to build another one.


have a look on theinside if theres enuf meat ther macchine it away. or other method

BOOSTnWGn 23-09-05 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeVL
You can't build clutches hilly you spastic. Yes you should be able to no worries.

Thanks Luke. I wuve you wong time....

TRJBT1 26-09-05 19:24

this is my first post im just wonderin at what RWHP will the stock auto die?
________
Honda CL450

gmchaser 26-09-05 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinetySix
as in, the gearboxes have solid bell housings that cant be removed, its all once piece

wrong i'v had a bell housing changed on my mx7 gearbox? a mate of mine changed the bell housing on non-turbo vl gearbox with on from an SR20DET and it works fine.


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